1
00:00:10,850 --> 00:00:08,179
today we welcome mark over to skeptic Oh

2
00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:10,860
mark is a successful Silicon Valley

3
00:00:17,150 --> 00:00:13,710
venture capitalist and strategist turned

4
00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:17,160
author he has a terrific book and two

5
00:00:22,609 --> 00:00:20,160
upside-down thinking which is certainly

6
00:00:25,250 --> 00:00:22,619
right up our alley here on sceptical

7
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:25,260
mark thanks so much for joining me thank

8
00:00:31,460 --> 00:00:28,170
you for having me out so I met you

9
00:00:33,950 --> 00:00:31,470
through my friend Rick Archer who I can

10
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:33,960
never give enough praise to for his very

11
00:00:39,170 --> 00:00:36,690
excellent show Buddha at the gas pump

12
00:00:41,450 --> 00:00:39,180
which I think has really set the tone

13
00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:41,460
for so many of these questions about

14
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:44,070
consciousness and transcending that

15
00:00:49,130 --> 00:00:46,410
consciousness which your book is

16
00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:49,140
precursor to I mean you have to at least

17
00:00:54,709 --> 00:00:52,230
be able to address the topics you're

18
00:00:57,139 --> 00:00:54,719
talking about in terms of materialism

19
00:01:00,200 --> 00:00:57,149
and scientific material is in particular

20
00:01:02,330 --> 00:01:00,210
but I thought Rick did a great job and

21
00:01:05,030 --> 00:01:02,340
then I was super excited in this

22
00:01:07,429 --> 00:01:05,040
interview to kind of extend that and see

23
00:01:11,149 --> 00:01:07,439
where we might take that beyond that so

24
00:01:15,020 --> 00:01:11,159
awesome sounds good so I like playing

25
00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:15,030
this little game that I call skeptical

26
00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:17,369
jeopardy and I particularly like it in

27
00:01:21,050 --> 00:01:19,950
this case because as I mentioned so many

28
00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:21,060
of the topics you've covered in your

29
00:01:24,830 --> 00:01:22,830
book we've covered a million times on

30
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:24,840
skeptical billion times with a million

31
00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:27,090
guests and a lot of the same people

32
00:01:31,969 --> 00:01:30,240
you've talked to as well so really I

33
00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:31,979
think the cool thing about that is it's

34
00:01:37,490 --> 00:01:35,040
an opportunity to kind of move past that

35
00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:37,500
and dig into some of the deeper

36
00:01:43,910 --> 00:01:40,110
questions in terms of the implications

37
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:43,920
of an end to upside-down thinking beyond

38
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:46,170
the proof but before we get there you do

39
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:48,930
have an interesting background and I'm

40
00:01:53,179 --> 00:01:50,490
sure people would love to hear more

41
00:01:55,389 --> 00:01:53,189
about that so tell folks a little bit

42
00:01:57,980 --> 00:01:55,399
about this you're a super smart guy a

43
00:02:01,520 --> 00:01:57,990
Princeton guy and then also this

44
00:02:03,649 --> 00:02:01,530
outstanding tennis player I mean Silicon

45
00:02:06,050 --> 00:02:03,659
Valley you kind of got it all the whole

46
00:02:09,969 --> 00:02:06,060
package why do you want to throw it all

47
00:02:13,190 --> 00:02:09,979
away and pursue the spiritual path well

48
00:02:13,940 --> 00:02:13,200
this was not planned this is all

49
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:13,950
actually pretty

50
00:02:17,930 --> 00:02:15,690
for me after I graduated from Princeton

51
00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:17,940
I worked in investment banking in New

52
00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:19,650
York during the financial crisis so that

53
00:02:25,940 --> 00:02:22,980
was oh wait - 2010 I wasn't thinking

54
00:02:27,949 --> 00:02:25,950
about consciousness then at all I left

55
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:27,959
Wall Street and joined my current firm

56
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:30,450
it's called Sherpa Technology Group now

57
00:02:33,670 --> 00:02:32,010
based in Silicon Valley I'm a partner at

58
00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:33,680
the firm and we advise companies on

59
00:02:38,690 --> 00:02:36,510
business strategy and intellectual

60
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:38,700
property matters so when innovation is

61
00:02:43,009 --> 00:02:41,370
involved and patents in particular we

62
00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:43,019
help companies with strategy and helping

63
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:46,560
them transact assets that's what I do by

64
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:50,010
day and it was in about August of 2016

65
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:52,170
when I first started hearing podcasts

66
00:02:56,090 --> 00:02:54,810
that exposed me to topics related to

67
00:02:59,300 --> 00:02:56,100
consciousness that I had never heard

68
00:03:01,039 --> 00:02:59,310
about before in any serious way and at

69
00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:01,049
first I wasn't it didn't like change my

70
00:03:06,050 --> 00:03:03,390
life for anything but I started to hear

71
00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:06,060
enough independent accounts that a light

72
00:03:09,740 --> 00:03:07,350
bulb kind of went off where I said wait

73
00:03:11,630 --> 00:03:09,750
a second if these people are all not

74
00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:11,640
lying and if they're all not delusional

75
00:03:14,809 --> 00:03:13,500
then I need to reconsider things and the

76
00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:14,819
more I looked the more I realized that

77
00:03:19,580 --> 00:03:17,390
my paradigm was completely wrong and

78
00:03:21,590 --> 00:03:19,590
that was really the paradigm of

79
00:03:23,900 --> 00:03:21,600
materialism and it was because I hadn't

80
00:03:26,150 --> 00:03:23,910
been exposed to any evidence that I was

81
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:26,160
now seeing so after being exposed to new

82
00:03:30,740 --> 00:03:28,530
evidence I had to rethink the paradigm

83
00:03:32,449 --> 00:03:30,750
and it was a pretty disorienting period

84
00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:32,459
for me in 2016 I think I'm still

85
00:03:36,410 --> 00:03:34,049
recovering from that of just a

86
00:03:39,170 --> 00:03:36,420
completely new world view and I

87
00:03:41,539 --> 00:03:39,180
I was basically obsessed with learning

88
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:41,549
and I think I still AM so I spent a full

89
00:03:45,830 --> 00:03:44,010
year just researching as much as I could

90
00:03:47,660 --> 00:03:45,840
listening to podcasts listen to your

91
00:03:49,550 --> 00:03:47,670
podcast and many others and reading

92
00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:49,560
books and reading scientific papers and

93
00:03:52,940 --> 00:03:50,910
it was at the end of that year in the

94
00:03:54,979 --> 00:03:52,950
summer of 2017 where I said why don't I

95
00:03:56,180 --> 00:03:54,989
just put this on paper and into a book

96
00:03:58,039 --> 00:03:56,190
and I said I don't want to do that it's

97
00:03:59,750 --> 00:03:58,049
gonna it's gonna be too much and I don't

98
00:04:01,250 --> 00:03:59,760
want to put my name out there so I kind

99
00:04:02,809 --> 00:04:01,260
of went back and forth in my head for a

100
00:04:04,099 --> 00:04:02,819
few weeks and then a few buddies

101
00:04:05,330 --> 00:04:04,109
actually kind of pushed me over the edge

102
00:04:08,090 --> 00:04:05,340
and said hey why don't you try to do it

103
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:08,100
this was in June 2017 and I said okay

104
00:04:11,690 --> 00:04:09,930
I'm gonna take the 4th of July weekend

105
00:04:13,490 --> 00:04:11,700
which that year was a long weekend and

106
00:04:16,550 --> 00:04:13,500
just kind of pull an investment banking

107
00:04:18,469 --> 00:04:16,560
style work all night as much as I can

108
00:04:19,909 --> 00:04:18,479
for a few days and ended up finishing a

109
00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:19,919
significant portion of the manuscript

110
00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:22,320
that weekend so over July over the

111
00:04:26,630 --> 00:04:24,030
period of July 2017 I ended up finishing

112
00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:26,640
a first draft of the manuscript now here

113
00:04:30,350 --> 00:04:27,750
we are 29

114
00:04:32,750 --> 00:04:30,360
it's awesome so you're balancing these

115
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:32,760
two worlds I incorrectly said venture

116
00:04:37,220 --> 00:04:35,010
capital but investment banking figure

117
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:37,230
Silicon Valley and you're doing IP stuff

118
00:04:40,820 --> 00:04:39,450
it's all venture stuff anyway but you

119
00:04:44,060 --> 00:04:40,830
know there's interesting things there

120
00:04:46,310 --> 00:04:44,070
that we can get into later I mean that's

121
00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:46,320
kind of my background kind of my world

122
00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:47,910
not the investment banking part but more

123
00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:50,340
than entrepreneur high tech part and you

124
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:51,960
know it all kind of crossover I think

125
00:04:57,410 --> 00:04:53,370
it's an interesting background because I

126
00:05:00,200 --> 00:04:57,420
think it grounds us in a way that other

127
00:05:02,150 --> 00:05:00,210
people can't get past in terms of the

128
00:05:03,740 --> 00:05:02,160
other side of materialism which is

129
00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:03,750
connected but I'm pulling a lot of

130
00:05:09,770 --> 00:05:05,910
different threads let's forget all that

131
00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:09,780
let's play skeptic code jeopardy mark I

132
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:13,500
want you to pick our first topic and I'm

133
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:15,210
gonna read four people in case they're

134
00:05:18,770 --> 00:05:16,890
not watching this on youtube I have up

135
00:05:21,110 --> 00:05:18,780
on the skeptical jeopardy board mind

136
00:05:24,050 --> 00:05:21,120
equals brain shut up and calculate level

137
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:24,060
one two three wizards and Saints how

138
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:26,970
where is my mind observer believers

139
00:05:34,159 --> 00:05:32,130
silos mark what pick you tough choices

140
00:05:36,980 --> 00:05:34,169
I'm gonna go with mind equals brain

141
00:05:40,820 --> 00:05:36,990
first one top left okay good good pick

142
00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:40,830
stick with the basics so here's I guess

143
00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:43,590
one of the questions that your book

144
00:05:49,390 --> 00:05:46,830
makes the case that mind is more than

145
00:05:52,550 --> 00:05:49,400
brain what do you think is your

146
00:05:54,140 --> 00:05:52,560
strongest evidence from the book the

147
00:05:56,719 --> 00:05:54,150
listener says show are going to know the

148
00:06:00,620 --> 00:05:56,729
whole case but let me point out you make

149
00:06:02,630 --> 00:06:00,630
an outstanding job of it in the book in

150
00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:02,640
terms of laying everything out and for

151
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:04,110
people who are listening to this show

152
00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:06,090
one of the reasons you're gonna want to

153
00:06:12,590 --> 00:06:09,360
pick up this book is this might be the

154
00:06:15,590 --> 00:06:12,600
best book to hand to somebody who is

155
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:15,600
kind of a Normie in the regular world

156
00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:18,210
and is really wondering whether they can

157
00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:21,270
step past this mind equals brain stuff

158
00:06:25,730 --> 00:06:22,620
because you really lay out the evidence

159
00:06:27,260 --> 00:06:25,740
in a very very compelling way what do

160
00:06:29,719 --> 00:06:27,270
you think is your strongest piece of

161
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:29,729
evidence that you go to for people right

162
00:06:33,230 --> 00:06:31,410
from the beginning well thank you for

163
00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:33,240
saying that Alex I did write it for a

164
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:34,740
person who might not be familiar with

165
00:06:38,630 --> 00:06:36,450
these topics so I'm glad that you felt

166
00:06:40,430 --> 00:06:38,640
that way as well in terms of the the

167
00:06:41,210 --> 00:06:40,440
strongest evidence to me it's actually

168
00:06:43,190 --> 00:06:41,220
not one piece of

169
00:06:46,340 --> 00:06:43,200
the fact there is so much in independent

170
00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:46,350
areas the fact that we have siphon Amin

171
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:48,620
I like telepathy precognition

172
00:06:52,850 --> 00:06:50,930
psychokinesis remote viewing and

173
00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:52,860
survival phenomena like near death

174
00:06:56,510 --> 00:06:54,780
experiences children with past life

175
00:06:58,460 --> 00:06:56,520
memories mediumship and after depth

176
00:07:00,560 --> 00:06:58,470
communications when you put it all

177
00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:00,570
together combined with many of the

178
00:07:04,580 --> 00:07:02,310
arguments that people like dr. Bernardo

179
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:04,590
Kastrup make which is kind of a

180
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:06,690
philosophical argument that we could

181
00:07:11,230 --> 00:07:08,730
never verify the existence of anything

182
00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:11,240
outside of consciousness so a more

183
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:13,710
skeptical perspective is actually one

184
00:07:17,300 --> 00:07:15,090
which starts with consciousness as the

185
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:17,310
foundation when you put it together that

186
00:07:21,110 --> 00:07:19,410
to me makes a strong case but within

187
00:07:22,910 --> 00:07:21,120
those categories I think there may be

188
00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:22,920
two that I would give you that I think

189
00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:24,840
are the strongest that I would probably

190
00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:27,150
start with actually three number one the

191
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:29,280
fact the US government ran a program for

192
00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:30,690
more than twenty years and spent over 20

193
00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:32,880
million dollars on remote viewing and

194
00:07:37,909 --> 00:07:35,220
had successes I think that is really

195
00:07:39,140 --> 00:07:37,919
important and that tends to strike

196
00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:39,150
people when I tell them that if they're

197
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:41,910
new to this but a recent paper that came

198
00:07:46,340 --> 00:07:44,490
out in 2018 by dr. Edsel card enya an

199
00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:46,350
American psychologist the official

200
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:48,240
peer-reviewed journal of the American

201
00:07:51,409 --> 00:07:49,770
Psychological Association

202
00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:51,419
it's a meta-analysis of many side

203
00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:53,790
phenomena after decades of controversy

204
00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:55,860
American psychologist published this

205
00:08:00,920 --> 00:07:58,290
article that to me is really significant

206
00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:00,930
third is veridical out-of-body

207
00:08:06,950 --> 00:08:03,360
experiences in the near death experience

208
00:08:08,719 --> 00:08:06,960
phenomenon where a person has cardiac

209
00:08:10,820 --> 00:08:08,729
arrest for example and we know from

210
00:08:13,070 --> 00:08:10,830
cardiac arrest studies that blood stops

211
00:08:14,930 --> 00:08:13,080
flowing to the brain sometimes people

212
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:14,940
report being outside their body and they

213
00:08:19,010 --> 00:08:17,490
report things that those who are not a

214
00:08:22,130 --> 00:08:19,020
near-death experience state verifies

215
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:22,140
being accurate sampar Nia had a study in

216
00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:24,690
2014 in resuscitation Journal which

217
00:08:28,370 --> 00:08:26,790
documents one particularly striking case

218
00:08:30,020 --> 00:08:28,380
of that and it's very difficult to

219
00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:30,030
explain unless there is a functioning

220
00:08:33,829 --> 00:08:32,430
consciousness outside of a functioning

221
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:33,839
brain because there isn't a functioning

222
00:08:37,610 --> 00:08:34,890
brain great

223
00:08:39,079 --> 00:08:37,620
well said let's go back to the board I

224
00:08:40,940 --> 00:08:39,089
know your audience is very familiar so

225
00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:40,950
that was the super quick version no

226
00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:42,510
great that's great great stuff great

227
00:08:50,030 --> 00:08:45,630
stuff so where should we go next

228
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:50,040
about how let's go to how this is the

229
00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:53,610
question I think that I get from people

230
00:08:57,650 --> 00:08:54,420
with

231
00:08:59,930 --> 00:08:57,660
they are able to articulate it or

232
00:09:03,080 --> 00:08:59,940
whether you just see it brewing in the

233
00:09:05,660 --> 00:09:03,090
back of their mind is how can this be

234
00:09:08,180 --> 00:09:05,670
I'm sure you run into this a ton in your

235
00:09:11,540 --> 00:09:08,190
world a lot of successful people I'm

236
00:09:13,610 --> 00:09:11,550
there I'm made everything I'm in New

237
00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:13,620
York I'm in Silicon Valley I'm

238
00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:15,600
successful my career is going well my

239
00:09:20,210 --> 00:09:17,790
family's going well I would know about

240
00:09:22,250 --> 00:09:20,220
this if it was true you know when you

241
00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:22,260
talk about your story mark I love the

242
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:24,300
way you you talk it so matter-of-factly

243
00:09:30,220 --> 00:09:26,130
but you have to realize at this point

244
00:09:33,110 --> 00:09:30,230
that that is rare it is rare that people

245
00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:33,120
confront evidence that contradicts their

246
00:09:39,110 --> 00:09:36,660
belief and then they go well gee I guess

247
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:39,120
I have to get to the bottom of it or I

248
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:42,210
have to change my beliefs most people

249
00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:45,330
don't go there most people are stuck in

250
00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:48,870
the how can this be mode at least that's

251
00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:51,120
my experience what do you think and then

252
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:53,790
how do people get over this I think it's

253
00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:55,410
always important to remember how little

254
00:10:00,290 --> 00:09:57,930
we know and I throughout history we've

255
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:00,300
seen people kind of develop almost an

256
00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:01,770
arrogance thinking that they know more

257
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:03,840
than they do we have example after

258
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:05,970
example of this you can talk about germ

259
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:08,090
theory for example the notion that

260
00:10:12,830 --> 00:10:10,890
microscopic bacteria or viruses could

261
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:12,840
make you sick or kill you that was a

262
00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:15,210
ludicrous idea at one point and then

263
00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:17,100
with the advent of the microscope now

264
00:10:23,150 --> 00:10:20,550
it's common knowledge Galileo and versus

265
00:10:24,650 --> 00:10:23,160
the church we've seen paradigm shift so

266
00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:24,660
I think this is just part of the human

267
00:10:30,530 --> 00:10:27,870
condition but it's it's also pretty

268
00:10:31,610 --> 00:10:30,540
inconvenience to shift one's paradigm

269
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:31,620
and I can say that from personal

270
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:32,490
experience

271
00:10:39,980 --> 00:10:35,730
it was not easy it took a lot of effort

272
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:39,990
and it's it really rattled me and it's

273
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:41,610
not everyone would necessarily want to

274
00:10:44,930 --> 00:10:43,530
go through that so actually having gone

275
00:10:46,670 --> 00:10:44,940
through the experience myself I can

276
00:10:48,860 --> 00:10:46,680
understand why it would be difficult for

277
00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:48,870
people to make the shift and actually

278
00:10:52,460 --> 00:10:49,860
it's been interesting for me to watch

279
00:10:55,010 --> 00:10:52,470
those close to my circles friends and

280
00:10:56,630 --> 00:10:55,020
family because not all of them Dovan as

281
00:10:58,730 --> 00:10:56,640
much as I did but they've been taking

282
00:11:00,519 --> 00:10:58,740
things in piecemeal and I've seen their

283
00:11:02,829 --> 00:11:00,529
transformation happen in a much

284
00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:02,839
or manner and that might be what's

285
00:11:05,530 --> 00:11:04,399
happening throughout society is you get

286
00:11:06,939 --> 00:11:05,540
a piece of data and then you kind of

287
00:11:08,259 --> 00:11:06,949
forget about it's like oh wow the US

288
00:11:09,939 --> 00:11:08,269
government ran this program and there

289
00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:09,949
are declassified documents that say it's

290
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:11,990
real that's interesting then you go

291
00:11:15,369 --> 00:11:13,610
about your job and then you kind there's

292
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:15,379
this back and forth that I was doing at

293
00:11:19,389 --> 00:11:17,360
a really rapid pace but maybe other

294
00:11:20,889 --> 00:11:19,399
people are doing it more slowly so it

295
00:11:23,049 --> 00:11:20,899
might just account for a shift that will

296
00:11:25,660 --> 00:11:23,059
take a long time yeah I think the what

297
00:11:27,189 --> 00:11:25,670
you say really has truth there that I've

298
00:11:29,799 --> 00:11:27,199
experienced and one thing I've always

299
00:11:32,139 --> 00:11:29,809
said is that in some ways I think people

300
00:11:34,030 --> 00:11:32,149
are smarter than they sometimes appear

301
00:11:35,769 --> 00:11:34,040
in some ways they're a lot dumber than

302
00:11:37,929 --> 00:11:35,779
they sometimes appear but in some ways

303
00:11:40,030 --> 00:11:37,939
they're smarter in that a lot of times

304
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:40,040
people run across this information and

305
00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:41,930
they've really run the traps in their

306
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:44,180
mind and they've said you know this

307
00:11:48,579 --> 00:11:46,399
really collapses everything that I'm

308
00:11:49,929 --> 00:11:48,589
about it changes my religion it's

309
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:49,939
probably going to change my relationship

310
00:11:55,629 --> 00:11:52,399
with some of the people I'm closest to

311
00:11:57,369 --> 00:11:55,639
no don't go there and they put on a

312
00:12:00,189 --> 00:11:57,379
front like and they give some kind of

313
00:12:02,019 --> 00:12:00,199
lame excuse but they're kind of thought

314
00:12:05,259 --> 00:12:02,029
through that they don't need to touch

315
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,269
this stuff have you experienced that in

316
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:07,040
other people at all or what do you think

317
00:12:12,549 --> 00:12:10,569
yeah a close friend of mine doctor I

318
00:12:13,660 --> 00:12:12,559
talked about some of the evidence with

319
00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:13,670
them this was a few years ago and he

320
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:14,990
said mark I have a feeling you're

321
00:12:19,749 --> 00:12:16,639
probably right but my life's pretty good

322
00:12:22,420 --> 00:12:19,759
and I don't want to go there I said okay

323
00:12:24,699 --> 00:12:22,430
I respect that my personal view is that

324
00:12:26,379 --> 00:12:24,709
if we don't align with reality reality

325
00:12:29,079 --> 00:12:26,389
will come around to rock us at some

326
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:29,089
point so my perspective is let me learn

327
00:12:33,850 --> 00:12:31,610
as much I can about reality and align

328
00:12:37,179 --> 00:12:33,860
with it and see what happens right on

329
00:12:39,639 --> 00:12:37,189
right on right on okay let's see what we

330
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:39,649
got next know what let me let me take us

331
00:12:44,889 --> 00:12:44,240
someplace I get to pick next where is my

332
00:12:48,249 --> 00:12:44,899
mind

333
00:12:50,530 --> 00:12:48,259
mark what if I wanted to find a podcast

334
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,540
out there I needed another podcast

335
00:12:55,629 --> 00:12:52,160
are there any podcasts that have

336
00:12:57,850 --> 00:12:55,639
interviewed all these people that I've

337
00:12:59,949 --> 00:12:57,860
listed on the screen here many many

338
00:13:02,739 --> 00:12:59,959
impressive Dean Radin Bruce Greyson

339
00:13:05,259 --> 00:13:02,749
Stephen Schwartz I Brian Joseph and Jim

340
00:13:06,669 --> 00:13:05,269
Tucker on an epidemic Zander I can't go

341
00:13:08,530 --> 00:13:06,679
through the list of your boots watching

342
00:13:10,119 --> 00:13:08,540
it online you can see well I would refer

343
00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:10,129
people to skeptic oh and boot at the gas

344
00:13:14,230 --> 00:13:12,470
pump for sure and there's also a new one

345
00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:14,240
which is called where's my mom

346
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:16,040
it is the my podcast where I've

347
00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:17,600
interviewed many people that I speak

348
00:13:20,079 --> 00:13:18,950
about in my book many of the researchers

349
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:20,089
that have been on this show and others

350
00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:22,310
and the show actually has two formats to

351
00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:24,529
it one is the raw interview just like

352
00:13:27,579 --> 00:13:26,120
the conversation that we're having here

353
00:13:29,980 --> 00:13:27,589
and those will be available on my

354
00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:29,990
website but the main event is something

355
00:13:33,730 --> 00:13:31,940
that was inspired by my buddy from high

356
00:13:35,620 --> 00:13:33,740
school who I reached out to around the

357
00:13:37,180 --> 00:13:35,630
time that my book was launched and I was

358
00:13:39,699 --> 00:13:37,190
thinking about doing a podcast he works

359
00:13:41,889 --> 00:13:39,709
in the sports TV industry the only guy I

360
00:13:43,870 --> 00:13:41,899
know in media and I said I'm thinking

361
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:43,880
about doing a podcast we started talking

362
00:13:47,050 --> 00:13:45,290
about it more and he said mark don't

363
00:13:49,449 --> 00:13:47,060
just put out interviews let's try to

364
00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:49,459
make this really mainstream trust me

365
00:13:52,990 --> 00:13:51,740
and I was like chomping at the bit to

366
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:53,000
get the interviews out a few years ago

367
00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:54,770
but he said let's do something like

368
00:13:59,230 --> 00:13:57,020
cereal or this American life where it's

369
00:14:01,060 --> 00:13:59,240
like an 8 episode series almost like

370
00:14:04,810 --> 00:14:01,070
what you would get on Netflix but audio

371
00:14:06,370 --> 00:14:04,820
where you're narrating a season but you

372
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:06,380
use clips from the interviews that

373
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:08,480
you've conducted to back your points up

374
00:14:12,730 --> 00:14:10,910
and even more than that this show is a

375
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:12,740
conversation between me and my friend

376
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,830
the producer Matt and he's kind of

377
00:14:18,850 --> 00:14:17,360
playing the lay person who has isn't

378
00:14:20,829 --> 00:14:18,860
familiar with these topics almost a

379
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:20,839
skeptic and we're having a conversation

380
00:14:25,329 --> 00:14:22,850
and then we use clips from oh well

381
00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:25,339
here's more on telepathy with dr. Dean

382
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:27,940
Radin and a clip played so that's what

383
00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:31,250
standing cannot wait to hear that I'm

384
00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:33,500
glad I am glad I asked because I think

385
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:35,390
somebody has to do that somebody has to

386
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:37,910
add the production value to this to

387
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:39,950
bring people along so great really

388
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:41,510
looking forward to that so the podcast

389
00:14:45,310 --> 00:14:42,890
is called where's my mind it's available

390
00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:45,320
on all major podcast players now with

391
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:47,870
the trailer and as of August 8th 2019

392
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:51,050
episodes will be released great ok where

393
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:52,880
should we go next now there You've we

394
00:14:56,350 --> 00:14:54,800
picked off some of the easy ones that

395
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:56,360
might get a little bit harder after this

396
00:15:02,170 --> 00:14:59,360
wizards and Saints Wizards and Saints it

397
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:02,180
is so we just talked about the things

398
00:15:06,430 --> 00:15:04,850
that challenge people and I think one of

399
00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:06,440
the things that is challenging about

400
00:15:11,650 --> 00:15:09,230
this and it always has been really but

401
00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:11,660
we've just kind of kept it under the rug

402
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:15,190
a little bit is that if we accept this

403
00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:17,360
extended consciousness well first we

404
00:15:21,639 --> 00:15:18,920
have to accept consciousness which is

405
00:15:23,860 --> 00:15:21,649
what your book is all about but then if

406
00:15:27,370 --> 00:15:23,870
we start getting into extended

407
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:27,380
consciousness we do have a sense that

408
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:27,660
the

409
00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:34,920
that realm and Brahms that we don't

410
00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:38,430
necessarily want to engage with or even

411
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:40,830
want to try and understand how we would

412
00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:43,440
engage with demons ghosts fairies angels

413
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:47,460
et spirits do people have concerns did

414
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:49,110
they come to you after reading the book

415
00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:51,330
or before reading the book with concerns

416
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:53,540
that they're opening themselves up to

417
00:15:58,820 --> 00:15:56,490
maybe some things that they fear are out

418
00:16:01,520 --> 00:15:58,830
there and they don't want to mess around

419
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:01,530
with I think this is a really important

420
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:04,290
topic because once we accept the reality

421
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:07,290
of these extended realms there I think

422
00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:08,970
can be a tendency to become glamorized

423
00:16:14,660 --> 00:16:11,790
by it and to see things that seem

424
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:14,670
miraculous or to see someone channeling

425
00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:15,930
an entity that is clearly not the

426
00:16:19,490 --> 00:16:18,300
physical body and say wow there must be

427
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:19,500
something there and almost kind of

428
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:22,710
worship whatever is said and I think

429
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:25,110
there's a danger of the unseen because

430
00:16:28,910 --> 00:16:26,490
we don't know what we're getting and

431
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:28,920
this is a I think a multi-dimensional

432
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:30,450
universe something that's probably

433
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:32,610
beyond all comprehension so when we're

434
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:34,650
dealing with entities that are reported

435
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:36,570
throughout history but also many people

436
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:38,310
in modern-day some of whom I've

437
00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:40,290
interviewed on my show where's my mind

438
00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:42,990
who channelled themselves beings come

439
00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:45,230
through them I think we have to be as

440
00:16:49,310 --> 00:16:47,550
discerning as we can be about the

441
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,320
information that's coming through and

442
00:16:54,020 --> 00:16:51,360
I'll give an example from dr. David

443
00:16:55,580 --> 00:16:54,030
Hawkins who some I love his books he's

444
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:55,590
famous for his scale of consciousness

445
00:16:58,940 --> 00:16:57,000
using kinesiology and I'm not as

446
00:17:00,800 --> 00:16:58,950
familiar with the methodology there but

447
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:00,810
I'm very interested in his perspectives

448
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:02,010
on enlightened states of consciousness

449
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,170
that he apparently achieved and what he

450
00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:06,000
always says about this topic is he says

451
00:17:08,930 --> 00:17:07,560
it's not that it's not real these

452
00:17:10,340 --> 00:17:08,940
extended realms and these types of

453
00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:10,350
entities there are different names for

454
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:12,630
them it's not that it's not real but

455
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:14,730
just don't go there because it's too

456
00:17:18,110 --> 00:17:16,170
difficult to discern what's good and

457
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:18,120
what's not and I think it's a caution

458
00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:19,710
that we should all have it's interesting

459
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:21,780
to explore but we should just be wary

460
00:17:26,570 --> 00:17:23,010
because we don't always know what we're

461
00:17:29,390 --> 00:17:26,580
getting yeah I'm not sure about that I'm

462
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:29,400
not sure how that fits with the first

463
00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:31,130
part of what you said which is that we

464
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:33,990
have to understand reality the best we

465
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:37,230
can or reality will smack us in the face

466
00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:40,380
you know Dean Radin dr. Dean Radin I on

467
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:41,220
someone

468
00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:43,860
both you and I respect a lot recently

469
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:46,830
had him on the show he's now very much

470
00:17:52,159 --> 00:17:50,400
into researching spirits at the same

471
00:17:54,220 --> 00:17:52,169
time he's somebody who says up until a

472
00:17:57,490 --> 00:17:54,230
year ago that wasn't even in my

473
00:18:01,700 --> 00:17:57,500
awareness in terms of understanding what

474
00:18:03,620 --> 00:18:01,710
spirits might be and I just wonder how

475
00:18:06,140 --> 00:18:03,630
we get there

476
00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:06,150
if we don't take on the challenge of

477
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:10,049
trying to understand the mapping of that

478
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:12,570
territory which is the extended realms

479
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:14,490
and can we really just sit back and say

480
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:18,090
I mean isn't it just as troubling or

481
00:18:22,399 --> 00:18:21,090
problematic to say don't go there as it

482
00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:22,409
is to say Oh

483
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:25,169
grab your Ouija board and jump in I mean

484
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:27,090
there it's almost like there's saying

485
00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:28,710
the same thing in two different ways

486
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:30,360
like I know what that I know what that

487
00:18:33,230 --> 00:18:32,610
extended reality is and here's what you

488
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,240
should do

489
00:18:37,250 --> 00:18:35,520
don't go there I know what that extended

490
00:18:39,529 --> 00:18:37,260
reality is and here's what you should do

491
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:39,539
go channel the demons I think you're

492
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:40,710
totally right and there's a middle

493
00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:42,809
ground but I'm raising the kind of

494
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:44,100
cautionary point because there can be a

495
00:18:49,370 --> 00:18:46,620
tendency to dive in and I'd just be

496
00:18:51,409 --> 00:18:49,380
mindful of what's there but I'm super

497
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:51,419
interested in it too interviewing hell

498
00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:52,710
anyway Bay from the Institute of noetic

499
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:54,179
Sciences was one of my favorite

500
00:18:57,890 --> 00:18:55,770
interviews she studies people who

501
00:18:59,720 --> 00:18:57,900
channel and they talk they bring forth

502
00:19:01,279 --> 00:18:59,730
entities from many different realms and

503
00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:01,289
the messages that come through have

504
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:03,990
consistency and so that is interesting

505
00:19:07,610 --> 00:19:05,610
that independent people are bringing

506
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:07,620
through messages that are very similar

507
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:10,260
so I think short answer is I'm super

508
00:19:14,149 --> 00:19:12,330
interested we should be discerning but I

509
00:19:16,669 --> 00:19:14,159
think we should be exploring yep awesome

510
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:16,679
I'm tempted to follow up there I'm like

511
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:19,830
you man I love the scientific method

512
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:22,020
even though it's been consistently miss

513
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:24,809
applied I think we have to go back to it

514
00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:28,530
what patterns are emerging the juicy

515
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,230
that you find most interesting there in

516
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:33,840
that mapping of the extended rooms it's

517
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:34,890
interesting I was just looking back

518
00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:36,990
through the transcript of my interview

519
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:39,270
with Helen aya who studies channels and

520
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,520
we were talking about that exact topic

521
00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:43,320
which he reports and speaking to many

522
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:45,270
different channels is that the message

523
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,730
is usually about an evolution of

524
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:49,200
consciousness that we are kind of moving

525
00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:50,640
through collectively on this planet but

526
00:19:54,570 --> 00:19:53,100
also as part of something much bigger on

527
00:19:56,730 --> 00:19:54,580
a universal scale as

528
00:19:58,409 --> 00:19:56,740
in intelligence that's beyond this

529
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:58,419
planet whether its other dimensions or

530
00:20:04,019 --> 00:20:00,880
other planets that's what seems to be

531
00:20:06,509 --> 00:20:04,029
coming through and that we are on a path

532
00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:06,519
towards evolution your attributes is

533
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:08,470
actually reminding me of my conversation

534
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:10,809
with Paul Selig who channels himself and

535
00:20:13,799 --> 00:20:12,490
when we spoke he channels live if your

536
00:20:15,539 --> 00:20:13,809
listeners aren't familiar with them he

537
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,549
has plenty videos on YouTube very unique

538
00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:17,200
way of channeling where he hears the

539
00:20:22,259 --> 00:20:19,240
information and then kind of mumbles it

540
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:22,269
and then repeats it I asked him in the

541
00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:24,730
interview who these guides that were

542
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:26,200
coming through these beings what their

543
00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:28,090
incentive was why is it that they care

544
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:30,220
about helping us to evolve because

545
00:20:33,330 --> 00:20:31,840
that's what the message was coming

546
00:20:34,769 --> 00:20:33,340
through consistently and they said we're

547
00:20:36,419 --> 00:20:34,779
doing it out of selfishness or something

548
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:36,429
along those lines because there's an

549
00:20:39,810 --> 00:20:37,809
interconnectedness and therefore your

550
00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:39,820
progress is our progress and that to me

551
00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:40,480
is fascinating

552
00:20:46,019 --> 00:20:44,110
awesome mark awesome stuff love it okay

553
00:20:48,659 --> 00:20:46,029
where do we go next

554
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:48,669
shut up calculate great one of my

555
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:52,260
favorites so let me ask you this as a

556
00:20:58,129 --> 00:20:55,470
Silicon Valley investment banker guy

557
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,139
can't you make the case that this

558
00:21:03,299 --> 00:21:00,880
sidestepping of the philosophical

559
00:21:05,129 --> 00:21:03,309
implications of consciousness has helped

560
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:05,139
clear the path for technology

561
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:07,570
development I mean maybe this in the

562
00:21:13,409 --> 00:21:10,510
grand scheme of things isn't a bad way

563
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:13,419
to keep the trains running on time and

564
00:21:18,389 --> 00:21:15,970
if that's too much shorthand for people

565
00:21:21,509 --> 00:21:18,399
let me just backtrack a little bit this

566
00:21:23,789 --> 00:21:21,519
is stuff that you know is part and

567
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,799
parcel of your book but you do a nice

568
00:21:28,980 --> 00:21:26,320
job in the book of talking about the

569
00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:28,990
turn of the 20th century physicist

570
00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:31,720
Schrodinger Niels Bohr all the rest of

571
00:21:35,340 --> 00:21:33,700
them and they're saying hey we're doing

572
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:35,350
the best we can with this quantum

573
00:21:40,019 --> 00:21:37,570
physics stuff but we've bumped up

574
00:21:43,529 --> 00:21:40,029
against this thing called consciousness

575
00:21:46,379 --> 00:21:43,539
and that seems to be the primary driver

576
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:46,389
that seems to be fundamental that seems

577
00:21:53,789 --> 00:21:50,049
to be the source not matter and then the

578
00:21:56,850 --> 00:21:53,799
next step is and it's always attributed

579
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:56,860
to to what's it to Richard Fineman

580
00:22:00,419 --> 00:21:58,210
although I'm not sure that's where the

581
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:00,429
quote really originates but it's the

582
00:22:06,180 --> 00:22:03,760
idea of well shut up and calculate we

583
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:06,190
have some useful models that have fallen

584
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:08,230
out of this understanding of

585
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:10,510
physics that might allow us to develop

586
00:22:15,629 --> 00:22:13,570
all this wonderful technology and isn't

587
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,639
that really a better way to spend our

588
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:18,159
time and let's engineer that and see

589
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:20,710
what we get so you understand what I'm

590
00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:21,730
talking about I just want to make sure

591
00:22:27,210 --> 00:22:24,820
our audience does what do you think is

592
00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:27,220
there some advantage to just bypassing

593
00:22:31,649 --> 00:22:29,289
the philosophical implications and just

594
00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:31,659
building stuff for me this is really a

595
00:22:35,009 --> 00:22:33,460
question about creativity in the nature

596
00:22:36,269 --> 00:22:35,019
and creativity and I see this a lot

597
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:36,279
because of the field that I work in in

598
00:22:40,169 --> 00:22:38,110
Silicon Valley where we see innovations

599
00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:40,179
and especially with a patent if you get

600
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:41,350
a patent that means you've done

601
00:22:45,870 --> 00:22:43,450
something that is both novel and

602
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:45,880
non-obvious relative to whatever has

603
00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:47,529
been done in the past known as the prior

604
00:22:53,070 --> 00:22:50,380
art so how does an idea emerge that is

605
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:53,080
is novel and non-obvious sometimes that

606
00:22:57,269 --> 00:22:54,850
occurs in a nonlinear way where you have

607
00:22:58,860 --> 00:22:57,279
an idea that is not a shut up and

608
00:23:01,230 --> 00:22:58,870
calculate methodology

609
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:01,240
however the implementation of the

610
00:23:06,330 --> 00:23:03,510
creativity that comes in can be through

611
00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:06,340
calculation and logic so I think there's

612
00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:09,580
this combination of nonlinear creativity

613
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:11,590
that we can't fully explain always and

614
00:23:17,970 --> 00:23:15,490
the logic of calculation and programming

615
00:23:19,769 --> 00:23:17,980
so the creativity might be the the

616
00:23:22,409 --> 00:23:19,779
instigator and then the implementation

617
00:23:23,549 --> 00:23:22,419
comes with what we are seeing a lot in

618
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:23,559
Silicon Valley so I think by

619
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:25,570
sidestepping the implications we might

620
00:23:28,769 --> 00:23:26,710
have been shutting down some of the

621
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:28,779
creativity and that might not have been

622
00:23:31,980 --> 00:23:30,490
such a good thing I understand where

623
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:31,990
you're going with that only the one

624
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:34,510
challenge I have with that is that you

625
00:23:38,009 --> 00:23:35,769
know in particular I remember in your

626
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:38,019
dialogue with Rick Archer I'm booed at

627
00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:39,610
the gas pump you guys talked about it

628
00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:42,370
gets a little bit kind of love and light

629
00:23:46,379 --> 00:23:44,049
oh isn't this going to be great once

630
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:46,389
everybody gets on board with extended

631
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:48,370
consciousness mind equals more than

632
00:23:53,940 --> 00:23:50,830
brain are things going to be better and

633
00:23:56,970 --> 00:23:53,950
I don't know I mean if Niels Bohr and

634
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:56,980
Schrodinger had their way would we have

635
00:24:01,649 --> 00:23:59,679
an iPhone would we have an Internet you

636
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:01,659
could make the argument that we wouldn't

637
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:03,130
I mean that isn't the direction that

638
00:24:06,810 --> 00:24:05,590
wasn't their passion after realizing

639
00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:06,820
that consciousness is somehow

640
00:24:11,310 --> 00:24:08,980
fundamental I mean they're like Thomas

641
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,320
Edison and Gary Schwartz today they're

642
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:13,200
looking at a Seoul phone right there

643
00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:15,730
Thomas Edison famously one of his

644
00:24:21,530 --> 00:24:18,580
lifelong failures but something was

645
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,540
interested in is technology that will

646
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:24,000
was to connect with the deceased Gary

647
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:25,350
Schwartz someone you've interviewed at

648
00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:27,180
the University Arizona is still

649
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,150
interested in that that's a different

650
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:33,120
kind of maybe that's a different spin on

651
00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:36,000
the shut up and calculate thing I don't

652
00:24:39,530 --> 00:24:37,680
know do you have any thoughts on that I

653
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:39,540
really don't know because we don't know

654
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:40,950
what kind of information would be

655
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,770
obtained if there were more kind of

656
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:46,320
alignment with consciousness if maybe it

657
00:24:49,370 --> 00:24:47,430
would have steered us in those

658
00:24:51,710 --> 00:24:49,380
directions too with people who have that

659
00:24:53,420 --> 00:24:51,720
passion or those unique skill sets to be

660
00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:53,430
able to shut up and calculate so I think

661
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:54,600
it's a great point you raise I just

662
00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:56,280
don't know we it's hard to know what

663
00:24:59,420 --> 00:24:57,990
would have happened yeah that's fair

664
00:25:01,940 --> 00:24:59,430
enough it's it's actually an excellent

665
00:25:03,530 --> 00:25:01,950
point on your part so okay mark what's

666
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:03,540
next what have we not done yet how about

667
00:25:09,410 --> 00:25:06,600
level 1 level 2 level 3 nice that's what

668
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,420
I wanted to do too so you've written an

669
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:11,520
awesome book that if I would have had a

670
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:13,410
few years ago would have trimmed here is

671
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:16,170
off of my skeptical journey save me a

672
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:18,690
bunch of interview time it's so well put

673
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:20,610
together it's so well organized and

674
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:23,910
documented but one of the things I guess

675
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:26,010
I stumbled into and I'd love to get your

676
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:28,770
thoughts on this is that there's this

677
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:31,320
level 1 to 3 thing what I call is that

678
00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:34,290
follow the data your book your journey

679
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:36,750
my journey is the first part of that

680
00:25:42,590 --> 00:25:39,960
which is what are the best scientists

681
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:42,600
say what are the best minds say where

682
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:44,610
are the anomalies and how are they best

683
00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:46,440
resolved and I come to the same

684
00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:49,230
conclusion that you do is that it points

685
00:25:54,650 --> 00:25:51,390
towards a new understanding of

686
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:54,660
consciousness that has been completely

687
00:25:59,720 --> 00:25:57,930
missed by science as we know it but at

688
00:26:01,900 --> 00:25:59,730
some point I kind of came to the

689
00:26:04,850 --> 00:26:01,910
realization that there's a

690
00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:04,860
conspiratorial aspect of that kind of

691
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:07,560
cooked right into the cake and that is

692
00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:09,210
like you mentioned remote viewing was

693
00:26:13,940 --> 00:26:11,820
one of your first go-to topics in terms

694
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:13,950
of evidence that you found most

695
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:17,430
compelling for mind not equal brain well

696
00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:19,350
and I was credit my friend Gordon white

697
00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:21,270
for being the first one to wake me up to

698
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:23,400
this but if you look at that research

699
00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:25,530
and you look at all the other stuff that

700
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:27,150
was going on at Stanford Research

701
00:26:32,150 --> 00:26:29,490
Institute from hell put off and they

702
00:26:33,770 --> 00:26:32,160
were way past materialism and these are

703
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:33,780
two of the brightest scientists in the

704
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:34,320
world

705
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:36,450
and they weren't alone there was a

706
00:26:42,250 --> 00:26:39,810
significant group within the government

707
00:26:45,530 --> 00:26:42,260
the hidden college if you will that

708
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:45,540
understood that this materialism in this

709
00:26:50,150 --> 00:26:47,580
limited view of consciousness was

710
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:50,160
nowhere close to anything that was real

711
00:26:54,350 --> 00:26:52,290
and was useful for building these things

712
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:54,360
but wasn't true to the ultimate reality

713
00:27:01,700 --> 00:26:58,080
so that's the level two discussion is so

714
00:27:04,820 --> 00:27:01,710
what's really going on with those guys

715
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:04,830
who know better than to kind of pitch

716
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:07,290
this materialism and then maybe we can

717
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:09,960
get to level three which we already have

718
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:11,880
touched on which is I think the real

719
00:27:15,530 --> 00:27:13,830
payoff at the end of the day if you sort

720
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:15,540
through that you say okay there's one

721
00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:17,850
group that knows more than everybody

722
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:19,980
else well what's really the game and

723
00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:21,690
then I think you have to ask you know

724
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:23,430
how does this fit into the larger

725
00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:25,770
question how I should live my life you

726
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:27,900
know is there a good and bad is there a

727
00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:29,400
moral imperative and all those other

728
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:31,820
things but take me through your

729
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:34,050
understanding of this level-1 level-2

730
00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:36,690
level-3 thing I'm really glad you framed

731
00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:38,400
it this way it's sort of how I was

732
00:27:41,630 --> 00:27:39,900
thinking about the book is that the book

733
00:27:43,670 --> 00:27:41,640
would hopefully serve as a gateway for

734
00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:43,680
people to open the door to the really

735
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:45,000
really interesting questions which I

736
00:27:48,260 --> 00:27:46,530
know you've been exploring a lot and I

737
00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:48,270
personally explore them too but without

738
00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:50,430
level one without understanding that

739
00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:52,590
it's not mine equals brain these other

740
00:27:56,510 --> 00:27:54,660
topics don't make sense so one would

741
00:27:57,860 --> 00:27:56,520
potentially just be closed off to them

742
00:27:59,390 --> 00:27:57,870
entirely and I think that's what we have

743
00:28:01,040 --> 00:27:59,400
right now a lot of really smart people

744
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:01,050
who are not looking at those topics

745
00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:02,880
because they're still in mind equals

746
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:05,430
brain so why go to levels two and three

747
00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:08,510
so I think that's the critical step is

748
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,550
kind of dispelling that myth and I think

749
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:13,200
there's substantial evidence for that

750
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:16,380
level two and three those are ones I

751
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:18,770
still think about all the time level two

752
00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:22,500
conspiracies are there why is it that

753
00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:25,350
this information isn't as well known in

754
00:28:30,770 --> 00:28:27,900
a society where there is so much access

755
00:28:33,410 --> 00:28:30,780
to information I mean I've heard ideas

756
00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:33,420
that there are kind of forces that are

757
00:28:36,860 --> 00:28:35,190
trying to suppress the information I

758
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:36,870
honestly don't know as much about that

759
00:28:40,510 --> 00:28:38,790
I've kind of heard that as a theory what

760
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:40,520
I've heard more about is kind of

761
00:28:46,580 --> 00:28:43,170
suppression based almost on ego of

762
00:28:47,769 --> 00:28:46,590
people not wanting to be wrong and this

763
00:28:49,479 --> 00:28:47,779
was actually came up in some of

764
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:49,489
interviews with scientists who would

765
00:28:53,289 --> 00:28:51,529
talk to a mainstream scientist who would

766
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:53,299
say well if what you're doing is right

767
00:28:56,469 --> 00:28:54,830
meeting these extended consciousness

768
00:28:57,909 --> 00:28:56,479
realms if that's right then everything

769
00:29:00,009 --> 00:28:57,919
that I've done in my career would be

770
00:29:01,810 --> 00:29:00,019
wrong and that is I guess difficult for

771
00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:01,820
some people to take I totally agree with

772
00:29:05,709 --> 00:29:04,070
you on one hand and I think your

773
00:29:07,479 --> 00:29:05,719
assessment of the situation or your

774
00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:07,489
telling of those stories is important

775
00:29:09,009 --> 00:29:08,840
because I think people can relate to

776
00:29:11,229 --> 00:29:09,019
that

777
00:29:15,099 --> 00:29:11,239
and if you can't you know just imagine

778
00:29:16,899 --> 00:29:15,109
your entire career being shattered right

779
00:29:18,459 --> 00:29:16,909
in front of your eyes I mean most of us

780
00:29:20,349 --> 00:29:18,469
would be a little bit resistant to that

781
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,359
even though we think science should play

782
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,399
by some different set of rules and it

783
00:29:25,779 --> 00:29:24,080
doesn't because they're just people and

784
00:29:27,399 --> 00:29:25,789
and the slide that I brought up earlier

785
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:27,409
in the house slide I always remember

786
00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:29,330
interviewing dr. Henry Bower from

787
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:31,940
Virginia Tech who has written a couple

788
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:34,159
of really fantastic books trying to

789
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:37,039
understand why science is so broken in

790
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:40,399
this way and can't get past itself and I

791
00:29:43,959 --> 00:29:42,169
do have to return to the conspiracy for

792
00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:43,969
a minute because I think even what

793
00:29:48,369 --> 00:29:46,940
you're saying is part of the conspiracy

794
00:29:49,719 --> 00:29:48,379
and I know people hate that word but

795
00:29:51,879 --> 00:29:49,729
there's no other way to describe it

796
00:29:55,919 --> 00:29:51,889
I mean we've built a system that props

797
00:29:58,089 --> 00:29:55,929
up this kind of third-grade fallacy

798
00:30:00,009 --> 00:29:58,099
ridiculousness that consciousness is an

799
00:30:01,419 --> 00:30:00,019
illusion and you can and I've played it

800
00:30:03,190 --> 00:30:01,429
on this show before go listen to Neil

801
00:30:04,899 --> 00:30:03,200
deGrasse Tyson who isn't talking about

802
00:30:07,629 --> 00:30:04,909
propped up propped up is one of the

803
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,639
leading scientific figures in the United

804
00:30:11,019 --> 00:30:09,200
States or the world or what you want to

805
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:11,029
say it and you'll hear him say I think

806
00:30:15,879 --> 00:30:13,570
what we're gonna find here we may find

807
00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:15,889
consciousness there's really nothing

808
00:30:22,659 --> 00:30:19,940
there this is an insane absurd idea that

809
00:30:24,339 --> 00:30:22,669
doesn't pass a high schooler certainly I

810
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:24,349
said third grade but certainly a high

811
00:30:28,389 --> 00:30:26,450
school's understanding philosophy you

812
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:28,399
mentioned Bernardo Kastrup we had a good

813
00:30:33,849 --> 00:30:30,080
chuckle on the show when we talked about

814
00:30:36,369 --> 00:30:33,859
that how this idea is perpetuated and

815
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:36,379
held up is hard to understand without

816
00:30:40,269 --> 00:30:38,330
understanding conspiracy but then if you

817
00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:40,279
go like I did and you investigate the

818
00:30:45,639 --> 00:30:43,070
pushback that comes in waves

819
00:30:48,459 --> 00:30:45,649
whenever anyone seriously challenges it

820
00:30:51,459 --> 00:30:48,469
it's hard to just chalk it up as just

821
00:30:53,049 --> 00:30:51,469
old two guys out there arguing take Evan

822
00:30:56,169 --> 00:30:53,059
Alexander who you reference in the book

823
00:30:58,899 --> 00:30:56,179
the wave of criticism that this Harvard

824
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:58,909
neurosurgeon got when he came out and

825
00:31:03,910 --> 00:31:01,760
said hey I almost died and I had

826
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:03,920
near-death experience ensures what

827
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:06,190
happened there was an organized

828
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:10,400
systematic pushback on that that I don't

829
00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:12,430
think can be explained without

830
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,320
acknowledging that there is a group

831
00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:17,840
whatever that group is that is opposed

832
00:31:23,140 --> 00:31:20,870
to these ideas going forward and the

833
00:31:27,340 --> 00:31:23,150
only conclusion I can come to is that if

834
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,350
you want to run the world then maybe the

835
00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:29,600
system that they have in place the

836
00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:32,180
limited thinking materialism which

837
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:34,820
scientific materialism which extends

838
00:31:39,790 --> 00:31:37,730
into personal materialism go buy stuff

839
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:39,800
go be happy with the things that you

840
00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:43,040
have that someone has decided is a

841
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:46,520
better way to run the world than what

842
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:49,370
you're proposing so I want to kind of

843
00:31:56,050 --> 00:31:52,640
dive back into that conspiracy thing and

844
00:31:59,380 --> 00:31:56,060
and see if that might not make sense to

845
00:32:01,750 --> 00:31:59,390
you as a possible motivation for why

846
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:01,760
we're stuck with such a just silly

847
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:04,490
paradigm I'm certainly open to it I just

848
00:32:08,830 --> 00:32:07,070
don't I haven't studied the mechanics

849
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:08,840
behind that enough but I've seen data

850
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:10,730
points that would fit with it some of

851
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:12,290
which you describe where there's kind of

852
00:32:16,930 --> 00:32:15,530
there seems to be a suppression I'm

853
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,940
thinking back to some conversations I've

854
00:32:20,110 --> 00:32:18,080
had with scientists who say they'll

855
00:32:21,730 --> 00:32:20,120
submit an article to a scientific

856
00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:21,740
journal and the journal will reject the

857
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:24,230
article not because of the methodology

858
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:25,550
but because what's being studied is

859
00:32:29,470 --> 00:32:27,170
impossible and that's just a complete

860
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:29,480
stonewalling okay great tell you what

861
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:31,820
let's leave it at that okay mark where

862
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:32,690
do we go from here

863
00:32:38,830 --> 00:32:35,290
believers you know the number one

864
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:38,840
pushback that I get when I take this

865
00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:42,170
you're more than your brain thing and I

866
00:32:45,910 --> 00:32:44,270
guess this would be a valid pushback for

867
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:45,920
you again because I'm referencing the

868
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,690
excellent interview did you did with

869
00:32:51,220 --> 00:32:49,760
Rick unglued at the gas pump and you've

870
00:32:53,290 --> 00:32:51,230
done many interviews you've been very

871
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:53,300
generous with your time in promoting

872
00:32:58,030 --> 00:32:55,580
this book and as we all know there's not

873
00:32:59,560 --> 00:32:58,040
like this huge financial incentive like

874
00:33:01,840 --> 00:32:59,570
you're gonna sell millions and millions

875
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:01,850
of these kind of books I mean it just

876
00:33:07,030 --> 00:33:04,210
doesn't work that way so your

877
00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:07,040
motivations can only be of the highest

878
00:33:11,620 --> 00:33:09,560
kind I can I just have to assume that

879
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:11,630
they are you're be commended for that

880
00:33:14,990 --> 00:33:14,240
but here's the pushback I get people say

881
00:33:18,020 --> 00:33:15,000
yeah

882
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:18,030
yada-yada-yada mind equals brain the

883
00:33:21,770 --> 00:33:20,790
vast majority of people 90% believe that

884
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:21,780
there's some kind of higher power

885
00:33:26,780 --> 00:33:24,450
therefore they already reject the idea

886
00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:26,790
of mind equals brain has that really

887
00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:29,160
made the world any better safer you're

888
00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:31,860
kind of painting this Pollyanna future

889
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:34,350
of when people realize the greater

890
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:38,130
consciousness go tell the folks in Iran

891
00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:39,810
that just picking on Iran because

892
00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:42,030
they're in the news go tell all the

893
00:33:46,580 --> 00:33:44,280
radical Muslim countries that we'd love

894
00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:46,590
to hate who are very there they don't

895
00:33:50,390 --> 00:33:48,540
believe in mind equals brain there so

896
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:50,400
there's a in the or pick on Fundy

897
00:33:54,170 --> 00:33:52,140
Christians or pick on any fund a

898
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:54,180
religious group you want they're not

899
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:56,010
mind equal brain are they making the

900
00:34:01,040 --> 00:33:58,290
world better and if not then aren't you

901
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:01,050
just peddling another version of your

902
00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:03,810
religion your picture of how everyone

903
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:06,060
should be I think a great point a great

904
00:34:09,770 --> 00:34:07,830
question it brings me back I think to

905
00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:09,780
our level-1 level-2 level-3 discussion

906
00:34:14,930 --> 00:34:12,600
to me the mind equals brain to keep the

907
00:34:16,610 --> 00:34:14,940
spelling that myth is almost step one

908
00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:16,620
but getting to the topics that you've

909
00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:17,940
become very interested in and then I'm

910
00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:19,409
interested in its what does it all mean

911
00:34:24,260 --> 00:34:21,300
what are the other realms how should we

912
00:34:28,010 --> 00:34:24,270
live that part I think is it maybe less

913
00:34:30,770 --> 00:34:28,020
well explored so the at post mind equals

914
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:30,780
brain paradigm after we get to a kind of

915
00:34:35,869 --> 00:34:32,490
extended consciousness realm paradigm

916
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,879
then we have to understand reality to

917
00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:37,500
another level and to understand what it

918
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:40,080
all means and how how what the system is

919
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:42,690
and I think it's when we get there that

920
00:34:46,970 --> 00:34:44,610
we might advance so I agree with you

921
00:34:48,770 --> 00:34:46,980
that just flipping the paradigm on its

922
00:34:51,710 --> 00:34:48,780
own will not do it it has to be more

923
00:34:52,909 --> 00:34:51,720
than that excellent mark great Steve and

924
00:34:54,110 --> 00:34:52,919
actually I want to I want to mention

925
00:34:55,790 --> 00:34:54,120
something that's come up a lot in my

926
00:34:56,540 --> 00:34:55,800
recent studies and comes up with my

927
00:34:59,660 --> 00:34:56,550
podcast

928
00:35:00,890 --> 00:34:59,670
on this topic a phenomenon reported in

929
00:35:03,710 --> 00:35:00,900
the near-death experience called the

930
00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:03,720
life review which is reported very often

931
00:35:06,530 --> 00:35:05,100
I spoke with the man named Daniel

932
00:35:08,330 --> 00:35:06,540
Brinkley who's famous for having had

933
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:08,340
multiple near-death experiences and

934
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,930
what's unique about his experiences is

935
00:35:14,570 --> 00:35:12,000
that he had a life review each time

936
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,580
which is not always reported and he has

937
00:35:19,070 --> 00:35:16,800
had for life reviews and this is where a

938
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:19,080
person claims to have experienced his or

939
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:21,210
her whole life in a flash where the

940
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:22,770
events are experienced too through the

941
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:25,890
eyes of the people affected so let's say

942
00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:27,660
in the case of dannion brinkley he was

943
00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:28,920
in the

944
00:35:32,660 --> 00:35:30,630
he told me he killed many people that he

945
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:32,670
was vicious in combat so during his life

946
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:34,650
review each time he relived the deaths

947
00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:36,000
of the people that he killed through

948
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:37,980
their eyes and not only that and felt

949
00:35:41,390 --> 00:35:39,930
the indirect effects he felt the effects

950
00:35:43,220 --> 00:35:41,400
of the child who no longer had a father

951
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:43,230
because he had killed the father so it's

952
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:44,970
details like that whether these things

953
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:46,970
are part of the fabric of the universe

954
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:49,530
that could shift shift one's perspective

955
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,500
very drastically but to even explore the

956
00:35:56,930 --> 00:35:54,660
life review wouldn't make sense until we

957
00:35:59,059 --> 00:35:56,940
accept extended consciousness realms

958
00:36:01,099 --> 00:35:59,069
awesome totally agree there's really

959
00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:01,109
nothing I could add to that so I'm gonna

960
00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:03,630
move on okay let me there's only a

961
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:06,390
couple left so I challenge you to

962
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:07,740
remember all the ones we've talked about

963
00:36:14,329 --> 00:36:11,310
let's talk about the observer and we've

964
00:36:15,890 --> 00:36:14,339
been talking around this for a while and

965
00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:15,900
the last point you made about the life

966
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:18,420
for view I think leads us right into

967
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:21,569
that if I'm not a biological robot in a

968
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:23,790
meaningless universe if I'm more than

969
00:36:31,819 --> 00:36:27,599
mine equals brain then what am i and am

970
00:36:35,329 --> 00:36:31,829
I the observer of my experience am i

971
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:35,339
what Eckhart Tolle says what Michael

972
00:36:40,579 --> 00:36:38,160
singer untethered soul says what my

973
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:40,589
buddy Jeffery Martin has gone and

974
00:36:45,819 --> 00:36:43,530
studied in a social science Harvard

975
00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:45,829
social science kind of way the most

976
00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:49,470
awakened people that he could find am i

977
00:36:57,380 --> 00:36:52,950
the observer of my experience is that

978
00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:57,390
where level one leads me I think it

979
00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:59,220
leads in that direction for sure and

980
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:01,619
it's something I still ponder all the

981
00:37:07,339 --> 00:37:03,450
time it's the nature of identity really

982
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,349
what what is it that I am am I my body

983
00:37:11,870 --> 00:37:09,839
or I or am i that which experience is

984
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:11,880
the body and if that the latter is the

985
00:37:17,420 --> 00:37:14,160
case then does that mean I am NOT

986
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:17,430
physical then what is it that I am and

987
00:37:20,450 --> 00:37:18,480
it becomes a very introspective

988
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,460
subjective experience I think where I

989
00:37:24,859 --> 00:37:23,040
come out on it is that we are that my

990
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,869
identity is not marked but I am that

991
00:37:30,410 --> 00:37:27,119
which experiences mark and that's

992
00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:30,420
challenging that's been challenging for

993
00:37:33,859 --> 00:37:31,950
thousands of years while people have

994
00:37:37,010 --> 00:37:33,869
contemplated it and one of the

995
00:37:39,330 --> 00:37:37,020
challenging parts of it that doesn't get

996
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,340
talked about a lot is

997
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:41,680
that there are pitfalls associated with

998
00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:45,670
that following that path is not an easy

999
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:48,340
path even if we look at the NVE science

1000
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:51,610
you look at dr. PMH Atwater who I think

1001
00:37:56,820 --> 00:37:54,130
you've referenced in the book not sure

1002
00:38:00,660 --> 00:37:56,830
don't believe I did so her research

1003
00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:00,670
looked at the problems that folks have

1004
00:38:06,060 --> 00:38:03,670
in integrating in the near-death

1005
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:06,070
experience higher divorce rate way

1006
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:08,950
higher the normal higher suicide rate

1007
00:38:13,410 --> 00:38:10,810
way higher than normal which is

1008
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:13,420
surprising if you jump over and look at

1009
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:15,730
dr. Jeffery Martin who I just referenced

1010
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:18,990
and talked about who's studied this

1011
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:20,910
scientifically in terms of this

1012
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:25,480
awakening this realization that I am the

1013
00:38:33,740 --> 00:38:30,310
observer that I am consciousness again

1014
00:38:36,030 --> 00:38:33,750
it's difficult to integrate in a

1015
00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:36,040
motivational is one of the things that

1016
00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:39,580
falls out why am I going to kind of do

1017
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:43,030
all the doing that I do if I am the one

1018
00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:45,280
observing it's not that I don't do

1019
00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:48,100
anything but it's like I can't get quite

1020
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:50,740
as excited about the things that other

1021
00:38:55,710 --> 00:38:52,930
people are excited about and that leads

1022
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:55,720
to problems in relationships again this

1023
00:39:01,380 --> 00:38:58,210
higher divorce rate this higher ability

1024
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:01,390
to relate to other people so I think

1025
00:39:08,190 --> 00:39:05,040
this is something that is SuperDuper

1026
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:08,200
important and isn't being fully

1027
00:39:11,970 --> 00:39:09,610
addressed and it's another one of those

1028
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:11,980
things that I think people are running

1029
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:14,650
the traps in their head and they're

1030
00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:18,130
saying I'm not sure I want to be the

1031
00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:20,830
yogi on the mountain even if that is

1032
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:23,830
reality I'm not sure I want that reality

1033
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:26,290
and the flipside of that is as we've

1034
00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:29,710
talked about do you really want an on

1035
00:39:38,190 --> 00:39:33,340
reality so what about the pitfalls with

1036
00:39:39,810 --> 00:39:38,200
I am the observer of my experience yeah

1037
00:39:42,270 --> 00:39:39,820
these are things I think about all the

1038
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:42,280
time too what is it's ultimately what

1039
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:44,200
how should we be living I think that's

1040
00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:46,000
where it fundamentally gets because that

1041
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:48,040
informs the decisions we make about how

1042
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:49,510
what to do about our identity if we are

1043
00:39:55,460 --> 00:39:53,160
not our bodies and at least to me my

1044
00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:55,470
hypothesis is at the moment is that the

1045
00:39:58,099 --> 00:39:57,089
fact that we are in a body indicates

1046
00:40:00,260 --> 00:39:58,109
that we probably should be doing

1047
00:40:02,539 --> 00:40:00,270
something here and not just escaping the

1048
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:02,549
world completely otherwise we wouldn't

1049
00:40:07,490 --> 00:40:04,140
be here that's just kind of the logic

1050
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:07,500
that I see my own mind so we have to

1051
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:09,930
balance it it's we're in a body yet we

1052
00:40:14,329 --> 00:40:11,849
are not a body we are experiencing the

1053
00:40:15,859 --> 00:40:14,339
body and then it moves to well then what

1054
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:15,869
do we do here what is that what is the

1055
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:18,930
best use of our time here I don't know

1056
00:40:22,730 --> 00:40:20,970
the answer to that exactly yet but going

1057
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:22,740
back to the research on on channeling

1058
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:24,900
and what we get for many people who have

1059
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:26,520
been to extended realms there seems to

1060
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:28,530
be a theme around the evolution of

1061
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:30,510
consciousness around evolving our own

1062
00:40:34,339 --> 00:40:32,010
consciousness which is significant

1063
00:40:37,819 --> 00:40:34,349
because we're connected and helping to

1064
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:37,829
evolve the collective so that seems to

1065
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:40,680
be achievable through being together in

1066
00:40:44,779 --> 00:40:42,210
physical forms and not necessarily

1067
00:40:46,789 --> 00:40:44,789
escaping the world that's kind of where

1068
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,799
my head is now and it could change I

1069
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,960
love that mark I beautifully said I

1070
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:51,119
think and I really appreciate the way

1071
00:40:56,839 --> 00:40:53,910
that you're struggling with that and at

1072
00:40:59,240 --> 00:40:56,849
the same time trying to find a coherent

1073
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,250
path because you don't have the

1074
00:41:02,569 --> 00:41:00,720
certainty no one could have the

1075
00:41:03,859 --> 00:41:02,579
certainty because I think one of the

1076
00:41:05,750 --> 00:41:03,869
fault one of the things that falls out

1077
00:41:07,279 --> 00:41:05,760
of this work of this understanding isn't

1078
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:07,289
it we're on the wrong end of the

1079
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:08,910
telescope to have any kind of certainty

1080
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:12,089
or just we're just the small little part

1081
00:41:17,150 --> 00:41:15,450
of some larger smear of consciousness

1082
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,160
again I love this that's a Gordon Mike

1083
00:41:22,099 --> 00:41:20,400
phone but you know we're this smear of

1084
00:41:23,930 --> 00:41:22,109
consciousness that's put into this

1085
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:23,940
time-space dimension that we can

1086
00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:25,890
understand and comprehend but as soon as

1087
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:27,569
we understand it's much larger than that

1088
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,849
then we have to kind of throw up our

1089
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,440
hands and say okay everything I have to

1090
00:41:35,269 --> 00:41:33,839
say is provisional and I want to circle

1091
00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:35,279
back to something else you said because

1092
00:41:40,819 --> 00:41:37,980
a little quote that I kind of use a lot

1093
00:41:42,769 --> 00:41:40,829
in and is meaningful to me is from Amma

1094
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:42,779
the hugging Saint if people are familiar

1095
00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:45,210
with her this Indian woman who is

1096
00:41:49,970 --> 00:41:47,849
incredible and is one of these great

1097
00:41:54,799 --> 00:41:49,980
beings we have to believe who has

1098
00:41:58,039 --> 00:41:54,809
somehow ascended along this spiritual

1099
00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:58,049
consciousness path in a way that we look

1100
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:00,900
at and say there's something there that

1101
00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:05,190
is to be studied and understood but the

1102
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:06,900
quote of hers is

1103
00:42:12,860 --> 00:42:10,260
I'm as someone who works tirelessly 1820

1104
00:42:15,530 --> 00:42:12,870
hours a day helping the poor out there

1105
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:15,540
in India with a shovel digging latrines

1106
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:18,690
you know leading women's groups in you

1107
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:20,400
know all these amazing ways and then

1108
00:42:24,350 --> 00:42:22,770
having these meetings where she's

1109
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,360
constantly hugging people hugging people

1110
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:26,640
18 hours a day and one of her devotees

1111
00:42:33,710 --> 00:42:29,640
goes up to Amin says ah you know you

1112
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:33,720
work so hard for this world and yet you

1113
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:36,560
tell us to look beyond this world and

1114
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:41,130
she's reported to have said world what

1115
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:45,690
world and you're chuckling cuz you get

1116
00:42:52,580 --> 00:42:49,410
it it's like if Alma can keep those two

1117
00:42:55,940 --> 00:42:52,590
complete contradictions going in her

1118
00:42:58,130 --> 00:42:55,950
head then maybe that's what we have to

1119
00:43:00,590 --> 00:42:58,140
do as well in order to make any sense of

1120
00:43:02,060 --> 00:43:00,600
this well we see kind of the opposite

1121
00:43:04,490 --> 00:43:02,070
end of the spectrum with someone like

1122
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:04,500
Ramana Maharshi a famous enlightened

1123
00:43:09,020 --> 00:43:06,390
sage from India who said that the world

1124
00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:09,030
as we see it doesn't even exist and he

1125
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:10,200
spent his life kind of in isolation

1126
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:11,730
people would come see him and he was a

1127
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:13,350
master but he wasn't as integrated into

1128
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:15,330
the world so the question is how could

1129
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:16,800
we have that mindset which I think he's

1130
00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:19,410
probably accurate just technically but

1131
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,960
still be in the world and that's maybe

1132
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:23,640
the human struggle is to try to balance

1133
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:25,410
the two to be in the physical but also

1134
00:43:31,010 --> 00:43:28,410
have our our understanding beyond what

1135
00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:31,020
we can perceive with our senses we're

1136
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:33,300
going back to the Bible of this world in

1137
00:43:37,730 --> 00:43:35,130
this world but not of it right that is

1138
00:43:42,170 --> 00:43:37,740
from the Bible isn't it I don't know I'm

1139
00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:42,180
not a good person okay there's one more

1140
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:44,520
I think that we haven't covered and

1141
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:47,730
that's silos so let's bring that up and

1142
00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:50,400
the question for me and this is kind of

1143
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:52,920
a very very skeptical kind of question

1144
00:43:58,250 --> 00:43:55,410
and that is what are we responsible for

1145
00:44:00,250 --> 00:43:58,260
knowing I really really have enjoyed the

1146
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:00,260
discussion we've had so far because

1147
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:04,410
everywhere I push you're willing to go

1148
00:44:11,090 --> 00:44:08,510
there and I'm consistently surprised at

1149
00:44:14,270 --> 00:44:11,100
the people who are not willing to go

1150
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:14,280
there even people on the edge supposedly

1151
00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:17,400
dr. Jeffrey Carroll is a genius and he's

1152
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:20,380
fantastic and Jeff has a

1153
00:44:24,390 --> 00:44:22,750
blazed new ground and is really an

1154
00:44:26,670 --> 00:44:24,400
innovator but I always remember the

1155
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:26,680
energy that I had with them and I think

1156
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:28,930
the subject came up with non-human

1157
00:44:32,849 --> 00:44:30,960
intelligence which to me is like

1158
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:32,859
fundamental you know you got a look at

1159
00:44:35,970 --> 00:44:34,450
non-human intelligence if you're gonna

1160
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:35,980
look at consciousness because it keeps

1161
00:44:39,809 --> 00:44:38,170
popping up and you can't just bury these

1162
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,819
anomalies and say well you know but

1163
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:41,440
that's what he says he said hey look you

1164
00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:44,460
know as a responsible intellect

1165
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:46,660
intellectual you know you don't talk

1166
00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:48,730
about things you know about and I always

1167
00:44:52,490 --> 00:44:50,230
see that as the other way around

1168
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:52,500
hey you are responsible for knowing

1169
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:58,240
everything that is in your domain and if

1170
00:45:01,799 --> 00:44:59,680
you're in the conscious to main you

1171
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:01,809
better have an opinion about et you

1172
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:03,970
better have an opinion about non-human

1173
00:45:08,279 --> 00:45:05,410
intelligence it's like the other day you

1174
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,289
know this guy and he wrote this academic

1175
00:45:14,009 --> 00:45:10,960
fine guy wonderful guy but he's written

1176
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:14,019
this big book on and he's a philosophy

1177
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:16,480
professor in England big book on the

1178
00:45:21,299 --> 00:45:18,910
evolution of consciousness and my first

1179
00:45:22,670 --> 00:45:21,309
thing is you know I I do a search in

1180
00:45:25,890 --> 00:45:22,680
your book for a near-death experience

1181
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:25,900
there's nothing there I do an a search

1182
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:29,680
in your book for parapsychology there's

1183
00:45:36,450 --> 00:45:34,450
nothing there so this is just a rant but

1184
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:36,460
let's pull you into this discussion I

1185
00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:38,650
feel like we have these silos of

1186
00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:42,190
knowledge still even in this kind of

1187
00:45:46,019 --> 00:45:44,200
little tribe that we've created who's

1188
00:45:48,420 --> 00:45:46,029
interested in consciousness and and

1189
00:45:50,490 --> 00:45:48,430
extended consciousness people aren't

1190
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,500
willing to go there there if you bring

1191
00:45:54,749 --> 00:45:52,480
up conspiracy oh no don't go there

1192
00:45:55,980 --> 00:45:54,759
if you bring up non-human intelligence

1193
00:45:58,410 --> 00:45:55,990
oh don't go there if you bring up

1194
00:46:00,480 --> 00:45:58,420
channeling no don't go there I don't

1195
00:46:03,630 --> 00:46:00,490
know that I think that inhibits our

1196
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:03,640
ability to get to that level 3 do you

1197
00:46:06,930 --> 00:46:04,690
have any thoughts on that

1198
00:46:08,009 --> 00:46:06,940
well I think the two of us are in a

1199
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,019
unique position because we're not

1200
00:46:11,789 --> 00:46:10,480
academics so we might have just more

1201
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:11,799
openness because we're not used to the

1202
00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:14,049
restrictions imposed in an academic

1203
00:46:17,309 --> 00:46:15,940
setting and there might be more risk for

1204
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:17,319
an academic or someone who's been in

1205
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:19,569
that setting to go outside of what their

1206
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:21,490
their little silo my personal

1207
00:46:24,990 --> 00:46:23,200
perspective seems to be similar to yours

1208
00:46:26,910 --> 00:46:25,000
which is I will go everywhere because if

1209
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:26,920
it's occurring I want to understand why

1210
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,630
it's occurring whether it's real or not

1211
00:46:33,299 --> 00:46:31,359
why if someone's talking about something

1212
00:46:33,989 --> 00:46:33,309
consistently what's the reason for that

1213
00:46:35,609 --> 00:46:33,999
is it Italy

1214
00:46:37,259 --> 00:46:35,619
or is it not is there some truth to it

1215
00:46:39,209 --> 00:46:37,269
so I'm always willing to explore

1216
00:46:40,919 --> 00:46:39,219
everything and I think it's part of my

1217
00:46:42,659 --> 00:46:40,929
just deep quest to understand reality

1218
00:46:44,339 --> 00:46:42,669
like we talked about at the beginning

1219
00:46:46,019 --> 00:46:44,349
because the more we can align with

1220
00:46:47,579 --> 00:46:46,029
reality I think the more the probably

1221
00:46:50,429 --> 00:46:47,589
the better off we are and I'm just a

1222
00:46:53,639 --> 00:46:50,439
curious person so my perspective is one

1223
00:46:55,289 --> 00:46:53,649
at least for me is to go everywhere but

1224
00:46:57,179 --> 00:46:55,299
to be discerning I think that's really

1225
00:46:58,709 --> 00:46:57,189
important not just to take everything in

1226
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,719
as fact and that's why I mentioned that

1227
00:47:03,629 --> 00:47:01,119
point earlier and also to acknowledge

1228
00:47:05,399 --> 00:47:03,639
what we don't know so for example with

1229
00:47:07,319 --> 00:47:05,409
regard to conspiracies it's something

1230
00:47:08,699 --> 00:47:07,329
that I've seen pop up I haven't

1231
00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:08,709
researched the details behind the

1232
00:47:12,389 --> 00:47:10,569
mechanics of it I'm open to that

1233
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:12,399
possibility but I really can't speak to

1234
00:47:16,109 --> 00:47:13,599
the details because I haven't researched

1235
00:47:17,999 --> 00:47:16,119
it so I think it's it's just being clear

1236
00:47:20,429 --> 00:47:18,009
on where our limitations are Marc you're

1237
00:47:22,169 --> 00:47:20,439
awesome at this game I don't know but

1238
00:47:24,689 --> 00:47:22,179
you would be the all-time champ right

1239
00:47:28,379 --> 00:47:24,699
now Alex Trebek would have you up in

1240
00:47:30,959 --> 00:47:28,389
Hall of Fame so you you've successfully

1241
00:47:33,779 --> 00:47:30,969
run the gauntlet of sceptical jeopardy

1242
00:47:36,509 --> 00:47:33,789
let's talk about what else is going on

1243
00:47:38,729 --> 00:47:36,519
this book where you're going with that

1244
00:47:40,709 --> 00:47:38,739
what else is happening with that and

1245
00:47:43,949 --> 00:47:40,719
then you've already told us about this

1246
00:47:45,899 --> 00:47:43,959
exciting new podcast what else is going

1247
00:47:48,929 --> 00:47:45,909
on for Marc Ober where do you go with

1248
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:48,939
this stuff well I asked myself that

1249
00:47:51,149 --> 00:47:49,359
every day

1250
00:47:52,469 --> 00:47:51,159
I still I don't exactly know where it's

1251
00:47:54,449 --> 00:47:52,479
gonna go that's how the journey journey

1252
00:47:56,849 --> 00:47:54,459
started for me it was all just out of

1253
00:47:58,979 --> 00:47:56,859
curiosity and passion so I try to follow

1254
00:48:00,389 --> 00:47:58,989
the passion where it leads at the moment

1255
00:48:01,919 --> 00:48:00,399
I'm in the final editing stages of the

1256
00:48:03,359 --> 00:48:01,929
podcast and that's kind of consuming a

1257
00:48:04,859 --> 00:48:03,369
lot of what I'm doing but I'm always

1258
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:04,869
researching I'm still listening to

1259
00:48:08,819 --> 00:48:06,729
podcasts and reading books and very

1260
00:48:10,979 --> 00:48:08,829
interested in these extended realms the

1261
00:48:12,839 --> 00:48:10,989
experiences reported by people who have

1262
00:48:14,969 --> 00:48:12,849
reached elevated elevated states of

1263
00:48:17,459 --> 00:48:14,979
consciousness the messages coming in

1264
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,469
through channeling forms of beings that

1265
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:19,359
are coming through and have been

1266
00:48:24,359 --> 00:48:21,729
reported as more people have an

1267
00:48:26,849 --> 00:48:24,369
interaction or a channeled so I'm

1268
00:48:28,439 --> 00:48:26,859
interested in many topics I also

1269
00:48:30,359 --> 00:48:28,449
recently joined the board of the

1270
00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:30,369
Institute of noetic Sciences I love the

1271
00:48:32,609 --> 00:48:31,089
work that they're doing

1272
00:48:34,499 --> 00:48:32,619
you mentioned Dean Radin he's a chief

1273
00:48:35,999 --> 00:48:34,509
scientist there but they're one of the

1274
00:48:38,369 --> 00:48:36,009
few places in the world that it has a

1275
00:48:40,289 --> 00:48:38,379
concerted effort towards studying topics

1276
00:48:41,909 --> 00:48:40,299
like this so I give them a ton of credit

1277
00:48:43,619 --> 00:48:41,919
and also the University of Virginia

1278
00:48:44,759 --> 00:48:43,629
their division of perceptual studies

1279
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:44,769
give them a try to credit because

1280
00:48:47,490 --> 00:48:45,839
they're in an academic institution

1281
00:48:49,830 --> 00:48:47,500
studying these topics

1282
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:49,840
but I think my work at ions that's gonna

1283
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:51,430
keep me pretty busy because I love what

1284
00:48:53,359 --> 00:48:52,510
they're doing and I want to help in any

1285
00:48:55,980 --> 00:48:53,369
way I can

1286
00:48:59,460 --> 00:48:55,990
awesome mark are you into the

1287
00:49:01,620 --> 00:48:59,470
consciousness hack thing do you try and

1288
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:01,630
hack your consciousness I heard you

1289
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:03,250
mentioned that you don't have a

1290
00:49:08,099 --> 00:49:05,530
quote/unquote spiritual practice

1291
00:49:10,140 --> 00:49:08,109
I got a probe that a little bit what

1292
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:10,150
does that mean to you or what is not

1293
00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:13,090
having that mean to you and any any

1294
00:49:19,140 --> 00:49:15,849
consciousness hacks either technology

1295
00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:19,150
consciousness hacks or I do ice baths on

1296
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:21,340
a regular basis to remind me that I am

1297
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:25,119
NOT my body I do all sorts of hacks yogi

1298
00:49:29,730 --> 00:49:27,970
hacks how about you I've tried a lot of

1299
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:29,740
different things meditation techniques

1300
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:32,890
binaural beats floatation tanks I think

1301
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:34,960
I highly recommend that your listeners

1302
00:49:38,609 --> 00:49:36,310
have floatation tanks near you their

1303
00:49:39,930 --> 00:49:38,619
sensory deprivation so I think it's for

1304
00:49:41,490 --> 00:49:39,940
me at least I like turning off the

1305
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:41,500
lights and having no music and you're

1306
00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:42,910
basically just floating so it's an

1307
00:49:46,530 --> 00:49:44,830
antigravity environment you're not

1308
00:49:48,780 --> 00:49:46,540
taking in sensory input so it's a way

1309
00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:48,790
for you to calm your mind I think pretty

1310
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:50,830
easily even if you're thinking you're

1311
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:52,990
still not taking in sensory input so I

1312
00:49:56,820 --> 00:49:54,910
found that it's a really good way to get

1313
00:49:58,079 --> 00:49:56,830
creative insights before going into the

1314
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:58,089
tank I might have a question and that'll

1315
00:50:02,640 --> 00:49:59,280
come out a tank with more clarity

1316
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:02,650
sometimes memories pop in so it's kind

1317
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:04,000
of some people say it's meditation on

1318
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:07,060
steroids where are you on the spirit

1319
00:50:12,810 --> 00:50:09,760
guide kind of thing or do you have any

1320
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:12,820
personal experiences with direct contact

1321
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:15,570
with spirit entities that are somehow

1322
00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:18,400
influencing human anyway great question

1323
00:50:22,650 --> 00:50:20,380
today I know many people who have direct

1324
00:50:25,290 --> 00:50:22,660
experiences I haven't had a visual

1325
00:50:26,820 --> 00:50:25,300
encounter or anything like that so I

1326
00:50:29,220 --> 00:50:26,830
haven't I haven't had a direct

1327
00:50:31,650 --> 00:50:29,230
experience like that at all because the

1328
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:31,660
reason I punished is because I'm very

1329
00:50:37,620 --> 00:50:34,750
dense I guess you would say I haven't

1330
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:37,630
had any you know firework kind of

1331
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:40,690
experiences even though I've done yoga

1332
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,210
for 35 years and meditate and do all

1333
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:46,000
that stuff but when I look back I've had

1334
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:51,010
a ton of smaller experiences and some a

1335
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:52,930
little bit more than smaller experiences

1336
00:50:58,920 --> 00:50:56,170
that kind of nudged me further along the

1337
00:51:01,450 --> 00:50:58,930
path so not enough where I could go out

1338
00:51:02,890 --> 00:51:01,460
there and you know proclaim

1339
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:02,900
I'm channeling your who thing like that

1340
00:51:08,140 --> 00:51:05,710
but I guess I'm pushing because I think

1341
00:51:10,870 --> 00:51:08,150
anyone who takes the path I think very

1342
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,880
quickly has something that is a little

1343
00:51:15,010 --> 00:51:12,800
bit non-ordinary do you have any

1344
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,020
thoughts I think my life over the last

1345
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:17,359
three years is pretty not ordinary I can

1346
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:18,559
just look at what's happened and I can't

1347
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,510
really explain it how that will happen

1348
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:22,640
so quickly it's it's pretty mind-blowing

1349
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:24,319
to look at the details of it but I

1350
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:27,290
haven't had like the encounter with an

1351
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:28,910
interdimensional being that some people

1352
00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:31,490
will report where it's a visual auditory

1353
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:33,230
experience I haven't had anything like

1354
00:51:36,730 --> 00:51:35,210
that but maybe we have to wonder the

1355
00:51:38,290 --> 00:51:36,740
subtle nudges that we get we have an

1356
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:38,300
idea to do something or were all of a

1357
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:39,410
sudden I said maybe I should write a

1358
00:51:42,730 --> 00:51:40,910
book when I never had planned on

1359
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:42,740
something like that I wrote the book

1360
00:51:48,370 --> 00:51:45,050
very quickly I don't I love the way you

1361
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:48,380
put that man which is like hey isn't

1362
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:51,650
this non-ordinary enough and I think

1363
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:53,599
you're right that's a that's I'm a world

1364
00:52:00,040 --> 00:51:56,450
what world it's like look at my life you

1365
00:52:01,870 --> 00:52:00,050
know read into it what you will mark

1366
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:01,880
it's just been awesome awesome awesome

1367
00:52:06,460 --> 00:52:04,130
getting to know you and getting to know

1368
00:52:09,010 --> 00:52:06,470
you in this little way that is so cool

1369
00:52:10,690 --> 00:52:09,020
that I can call up somebody who I so

1370
00:52:13,690 --> 00:52:10,700
admire their work and have this kind of

1371
00:52:15,940 --> 00:52:13,700
dialogue best of luck in the future tell

1372
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:15,950
us anything else where we tell us where

1373
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:18,650
people should go to stay in touch with

1374
00:52:23,710 --> 00:52:21,440
you or to reach out to you or follow up

1375
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:23,720
on what you're doing my website which is

1376
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:26,089
just my name mark Gobert comm has more

1377
00:52:29,799 --> 00:52:27,770
information on me and my book my podcast

1378
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:29,809
the end the name of the podcast is where

1379
00:52:33,099 --> 00:52:31,730
is my mind and I think hopefully that

1380
00:52:34,299 --> 00:52:33,109
will open the minds of many people who

1381
00:52:36,010 --> 00:52:34,309
are not as familiar with these topics

1382
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:36,020
and for those who are familiar with it

1383
00:52:40,539 --> 00:52:38,480
it's a new way to hear a lot of voices

1384
00:52:42,130 --> 00:52:40,549
you've heard before so I'm excited about

1385
00:52:43,299 --> 00:52:42,140
those projects and Alex I want to thank

1386
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:43,309
you for all the work that you do

1387
00:52:48,309 --> 00:52:45,680
you're sited in my book both skeptic oh

1388
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:48,319
and your book your work has been

1389
00:52:54,819 --> 00:52:51,650
influential in my journey so you you

1390
00:52:56,530 --> 00:52:54,829
really I mean that's the age of content

1391
00:52:57,970 --> 00:52:56,540
today it's it's so easy for people to

1392
00:52:59,710 --> 00:52:57,980
learn information and you never know

1393
00:53:00,970 --> 00:52:59,720
who's going to hear an interview so I

1394
00:53:03,339 --> 00:53:00,980
want to just commend you and what you're

1395
00:53:05,650 --> 00:53:03,349
doing oh thanks mark that's very nice

1396
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:05,660
you too say well tell you what we'll

1397
00:53:10,180 --> 00:53:08,210
we'll have to reconnect and I'm

1398
00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:10,190
definitely looking forward to listening

1399
00:53:14,670 --> 00:53:12,790
to this podcast and we'll

1400
00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:14,680
we'll have to update people on how that

1401
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:17,830
goes so very good thanks again for

1402
00:53:22,410 --> 00:53:20,290
joining me mark and take care I was fine

1403
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:22,420
enjoyed it thank you so thanks for

1404
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,370
watching this video if it wasn't really

1405
00:53:28,530 --> 00:53:26,800
a video but just an audio stored as a

1406
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:28,540
video I apologize but there's more

1407
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:30,640
videos out there as well but please

1408
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:32,590
check out the skeptical website you can

1409
00:53:35,690 --> 00:53:34,240
see it here we cover a lot of different

1410
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:35,700
stuff you might be interested in

1411
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:38,710
relating to controversial science and

1412
00:53:44,730 --> 00:53:41,530
spirituality a lot of shows up there

1413
00:53:47,550 --> 00:53:44,740
over 350 of them are so all free all

1414
00:53:48,970 --> 00:53:47,560
available for download so do check it